Hi Expats and Travelers! I’m Josh from ExpatsEverywhere and this is the Vertical Community Venture. We are trying to find a property in Porto, Portugal, buy it, renovate it, move in, and live in it. This is our 5th episode in this series.
In this episode I talk about the challenges that have arisen that have slowed me down from buying a place. I want to make you aware of what my challenges are so that you can set the right expectations if you’re going to try to do something similar.
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Josh and Kalie left the US for a life abroad in 2009 and haven’t looked back. They have lived in Spain, South Korea, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, and are currently in Portugal. Yes, they realize they only moved to countries starting with the letter “S” until they spoiled that streak with their move to Portugal. Follow ExpatsEverywhere as we aim to get information to you through expat interviews, city breakdowns, expat life, travel, vlogs, and more.
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Out of topic but i went to porto last week and ate at "caralhau", cod fish restaurant. Besides the hilarious name, it was very good! Check it out!
I am thinking if you were to find a place with a larger square footage you may be able to get the financial institution to finance the additional units as a income stream.
You can either rent any additional units as long term rentals or as Airbnb.
I have never used Airbnb because as a senior woman I am reluctant to say in a place that is not a hotel.
I for one would love to stay in an Airbnb managed by you guys.
Think of all your followers who would love to stay in your Airbnb/rental unit🤔
How can I be part of your project?
I just wish that this was in Aveiro or Cascais to be all in with my wife. Keep it up Josh! 🏡
The timeframes for the construction work given by the real estate agent for are unrealistic, specially if you have to change the building structure.
I appreciate seeing the update on your project. I am still searching for a place to buy. I have one other person willing to invest with me also, and it is interesting to see your 'process.'
As an almost-architect and one of the potentially interested (though I'm not yet in Pt) I will point out that IMHO you are getting something wrong: You're talking about 1 T1 and 3 T2 at 47 + 60/80/100 m²… anything beyond 65 m² is way out of reasonable T2 surface, specially in Europe. Gigantic houses/flats might be a good idea in the USA but not in the EU, where the seller will charge you for the square meters you can fit into the lot (not even for the existing building, wich you might consider accesory to the land). Again, just my humble opinion.
Hey Josh and Kalie. Still in Lisbon and will be leaving soon. I am enjoying Lisbon, the food I mean; I dont know if I said, but I went to Caldas, and several other areas. I am not sure I want to move to Portugal after having seen the places I saw over the last two months. Also I went to several neighborhoods in Lisbon, like Areeiro, and it felt like a concrete jungle, and I just could not imagine living there. Sure, it is close to Lisbon, but I just could not see how I would hop on the metro every time I want to eat something interesting (I am sure others will there are restaurants in Areeiro!). Restaurants were few and far between in that area. It is amazing how some rave about it, but I failed to see it. At any rate, I am still torn. And, one more thing: the more and more I walk on the side walks, I am realizing I could never do that for a long time; it is so hard to walk on it. I see people slipping and falling even on days when it is not raining.
Good electrical, plumbing, sound/heat insulation in a building that has not already been renovated; that is a pretty tall order in Portugal. Non negotiable aka you're a foreigner so we think we can get more money out of you than the building is worth. My flat rents for 2-3x what a similar sized unit in my neighborhood rents for that hasn't been updated in 50+ years. I see this inflated value in property for sale around here as well.
I remember having dinner with you one evening and you were talking about your renovating ventures In your home country 🤙☺️ I'm so excited for you to be doing this now in Portugal
Sounds like an awesome challenge 🍿🎥
Everything's negotiable! Just start finding every defect you can in the building and watch how negotiable it becomes. I would start working on anything and everything that has to do with the inside. Then with time you work your way out. Oh, and I would go through with it… with the promissory note, however I would proceed only if I really knew that I could get that mortgage loan. I purchased 7 properties in my life and I'm living in my 7th property right now here on the island of Puerto Rico but I've never applied for a mortgage unless I'm totally sure that I can get approved. Josh one more thing, I would start small and not get too many people into the group, test it with the smaller group and then in the future go bigger. But always start smaller. It's less risky. But I feel Portugal is a great market for real estate. Good luck!
Thanks for sharing this wonderful video. All d best to u guys n your project partners.
Hey guys, I've been following your journey and all I can say is…I feel ya. We've been looking for something ourselves down here in Lisbon and it's been in-ter-es-ting. 😁
you left some clues and I know where your ideal area is!! I also like that area a lot, but unfortunately, nothing was available when i was looking. one note, you should go there in the evening…there is a "seedy" side on a few streets there. also saw a couple cars that were broken into on 2 different occasions.
Adding more floors? I immediately thought… years of Portuguese bureaucracy. 2023…2024..2025? Good fortune if you can make that work
Be careful if you wish to increase the number floors or extend the building, because that will require architectural plan approval by the Câmara before any work can start, which depending on complexity can take sometime (no idea how good is Porto’s bureaucracy), delaying things. It also might not allow you to build all the extra area that you wished for – usually for each street there is already an established maximum height and building volume which you could check beforehand at the Câmara.
As for the "non-negotiable”, though it could be just a strategy the fact is that in Portugal a lot of times "non-negotiable" means they won’t accept a significantly lower. It’s not unusual to see properties on the market for years, waiting for someone to match the price. And with today’s market where property prices continue to rise and with relative high demand, there is a good chance they will not lower the price.
You definitely should look at properties outside real estate agents. Many times people will advertise them by themselves, and sometimes even do it while also having the property listed in different real estate agents.
Such a well-planned venture, Josh. And this post is very informative. Thank you.
Don’t fall for “non-negotiable”. If you want it, give your offer. The message “non-negotiable” is already a form of negotiation… How about a horizontal community where you have smaller units/houses connected through a courtyard or garden…
Hope your search for the building you need is successful!